Car and Driver compares the 2015 BMW F82 M4 to the Porsche 991 Carrera... and picks the M4

[rawad1017]

LOL mustang doesn't stand a chance

who do you think ford is using as the performance benchmark for the mustang? mustang vs m4 is going to be the most intense comparison ever

[rawad1017]

those 5-60 times show very minimal lag with the M4, so a floor-it-n-go method might be almost as effective as using LC. That 5-60 time in the Porsche shows how reliant it is on a higher RPM clutch drop to get good terms. MPG for both cars are acceptable too, with a new M4 owner already registering 32mpg steady state highway cruising, so not so bad after all! 119mph trap speed is wonderful, right in line with an V10 era M6 w/ SMG III (IIRC, car & driver tested that to be 120mph back then).

the best I've seen on dragtimes for a stock v10 m6 is 114, whatchu talkin bout? the m4 is more power efficient

[rawad1017]

what's up with all these magazines comparing apples and oranges lately?

[JonMartin]

The 911 won every category that matters. It won ALL of the Chassis categories and engine and drivetrain categories. Fit and finish categories not to mention although the 911 would cost more at first but it will also hold value better too... I'd like an F80 M3 but I'd get a 911 every time.

[spool twice]

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...-design-page-2

you'll have to read through the article, but C&D was able to trap at 121mph. Im comparing times from the same sources

the best I've seen on dragtimes for a stock v10 m6 is 114, whatchu talkin bout? the m4 is more power efficient

[Sticky]

Really? I've owned both and vastly prefer my E92 M3 but I prefer it mainly BECAUSE it is so much bigger and more comfortable than my 997 C2S. They perform similarly, but the 997's handling, steering feel, etc. were on a different planet. If you drive both back to back, the M3 feels downright lazy.

The M3 is bigger and more comfortable but the E92 M3 was not a muscle car. It was more four seat GT3 to the M4's four seat Turbo. Make sense?

[Sticky]

the best I've seen on dragtimes for a stock v10 m6 is 114, whatchu talkin bout? the m4 is more power efficient

114? I've been at the track with them running 118 and modded up to 122+.

[Sticky]

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...-design-page-2

you'll have to read through the article, but C&D was able to trap at 121mph. Im comparing times from the same sources

Allow me:

[onisyndicate]

who do you think ford is using as the performance benchmark for the mustang? mustang vs m4 is going to be the most intense comparison ever

@Mr. Boost

The previous mustang lost by .09 seconds on the streets of willow with a live axle. The newer model will have multilink also. So lets see what the numbers really are. 80k for a m3/4 or 45k for a 5.0 that does the same stats maybe better and also doesn't need turbos to put down 400 lbs of torque.

[Sticky]

^ That was also a 6-speed manual M3.

[onisyndicate]

^ That was also a 6-speed manual M3.

Yes I understand that but might as well compare the cars exactly the same.

[Sticky]

Yes I understand that but might as well compare the cars exactly the same.

Yes and no. The Mustang has no DCT.

[135pats]

Just MO but anyone who would purchase an M4 over a Carrera needs to have their head examined. Great car I have no doubt but it's no P car.

[Sticky]

Just MO but anyone who would purchase an M4 over a Carrera needs to have their head examined. Great car I have no doubt but it's no P car.

There are two different philosophies at work here.

Me, personally, I wouldn't choose either car.

[135pats]

There are two different philosophies at work here.

Me, personally, I wouldn't choose either car.

$80K or so, what would you take? C7 Z06?

I certainly agree the two cars take differing approaches to driver enjoyment. Both superb platforms.

[Sticky]

$80K or so, what would you take? C7 Z06?

Bingo.

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

It lost because the M4 offers about the same handling and more speed/power as well as practicality/usability at a far lower price.

Which is exactly why you always need to read these "reviews" quite carefully and think about whether your own criteria correspond to theirs.

I would wager that the majority of people considering buying a 911 don't give a sh** whether it has limited rear space and usability. They will usually have one or two additional cars that can do that job, if necessary. It will most likely be more important how it drives, how it handles and whether it is engaging to drive. All of which the Porsche does, because it is designed for it from the start, which the M3/M4 isn't.

That doesn't take away any of the accomplishments of the M3/M4, which certainly is a better bang for the buck and faster in a straight line. However, Porsches excel in other categories and are bought exactly for these qualities.

[Sered]

who do you think ford is using as the performance benchmark for the mustang? mustang vs m4 is going to be the most intense comparison ever

Agreed. Anyone who runs their mouth off about the mustang like that clearly hasn't been paying attention. The irs on the 2015 is very similar to the M3/M4 setup. I'd wager a track pack GT350 (assuming it gets the di 5.2L motor) will give the M4 all it can handle.

[Sticky]

The GT350 will likely be quicker around the track than the M4. That said, the M4 and Mustang aren't rivals. The Mustang is a higher volume and cheaper domestic car.

The only reason they are compared is due to their performance.

[Remonster]

The M3 is bigger and more comfortable but the E92 M3 was not a muscle car. It was more four seat GT3 to the M4's four seat Turbo. Make sense?

The thing you quoted said "The E92 M3 was a muscle car compared to the 997" which I think is true. Obviously it's an exaggeration but the 997 is way, way, way more agile and sporty than any E92 to the point that it makes the E92 M3 feel bloated. Even my 135i on KW coilovers, M3 bushings and control arms, a tune, and sticky tires felt like a Cayenne compared to my 997 Carrera S and my current E92 M3 has lazier handling than my 135i. The main issue is the fact that you sit so much higher in the E82/E92 which has actually been improved quite a bit in the new F80s but you're still much higher than you are in a 911.

I disagree with your assessment of the E92 and F82 being like the GT3 and Turbo, in fact I drove the F82 M4 last week and found it to be sharper than my E92 M3. The only advantage the E92 has as a driver's tool is throttle response, the new car turns in more eagerly, has similar steering feel, and lets the driver feel more of the road beneath. For me, it's close to 100% better than its predecessor with improvements made in every single category. Meanwhile, the 991 has become softer than the 997 so I'm not surprised C&D gave the nod to the M4 as the better overall package. I was completely blown away by the F80 and it made me change my mind about keeping my E92 M3 for a long time, I'm going to trade up in a year or two once the competition package is out.

[Sticky]

The thing you quoted said "The E92 M3 was a muscle car compared to the 997" which I think is true. Obviously it's an exaggeration but the 997 is way, way, way more agile and sporty than any E92 to the point that it makes the E92 M3 feel bloated.

I'm sorry, this isn't true. Early tests puts the E92 M3 as quicker around Laguna Seca than the 997. So, you're going based on something in your head and not reality.

The main issue is the fact that you sit so much higher in the E82/E92 which has actually been improved quite a bit in the new F80s but you're still much higher than you are in a 911.

Perception isn't reality.

I disagree with your assessment of the E92 and F82 being like the GT3 and Turbo, in fact I drove the F82 M4 last week and found it to be sharper than my E92 M3

Ok well this is insanity.

he only advantage the E92 has as a driver's tool is throttle response, the new car turns in more eagerly,

Yeah so the F82 isn't sharper...

Meanwhile, the 991 has become softer than the 997 so I'm not surprised C&D gave the nod to the M4 as the better overall package.

How? Why? Didn't Car and Driver give the nod to the E92 M3 over the GTR and 911 Turbo?

I was completely blown away by the F80 and it made me change my mind about keeping my E92 M3 for a long time, I'm going to trade up in a year or two once the competition package is out.

Cool you do that, I won't. If want brawn above all else WITH better throttle response for less money I'll go American.

[Remonster]

Are you purposely being dense? The throttle response of the E92 M3 is sharper, every thing else about the F82 is sharper. Its turn-in is better, its rear end is more responsive to throttle inputs, it's more willing to change direction, etc.

Every review seems to say the same thing, the new car is stiffer and sportier than the outgoing M3.

And perception is everything. How often do you time your drive to work or your run through the canyons? The car that feels best in my hands is best for me, period. Any objective measurements are simply an attempt to quantify the way a car feels but those numbers and results are not nearly as important as the behavior of the car. My E92 M3 would run circles around my 997 especially now that my M3 is supercharged and on sticky tires and stiff suspension, but the 997 was still much more fun through the canyons and was the better driver's tool.

[Sticky]

Are you purposely being dense? The throttle response of the E92 M3 is sharper, every thing else about the F82 is sharper. Its turn-in is better, its rear end is more responsive to throttle inputs, it's more willing to change direction, etc.

Every review seems to say the same thing, the new car is stiffer and sportier than the outgoing M3.

And perception is everything. How often do you time your drive to work or your run through the canyons? The car that feels best in my hands is best for me, period. Any objective measurements are simply an attempt to quantify the way a car feels but those numbers and results are not nearly as important as the behavior of the car. My E92 M3 would run circles around my 997 especially now that my M3 is supercharged and on sticky tires and stiff suspension, but the 997 was still much more fun through the canyons and was the better driver's tool.

Of course the chassis is stiffer, why wouldn't it be? Where did I write that it wasn't?

I very clearly stated my points, read them over again.

I commuted through the canyons in Malibu for several years in my E92 M3. It served that purpose very well. Would a 991 do it even better? More than likely. But it's already stated the 911 has the sportier feel of the two so you are just reiterating an established point.

[quattr0]

No thnx. I ll buy used the 991 still. Look at the chasis and fun to drive scores. Those would seal the deal for me. There r plenty '12 c2s for 80k+.

[Mr. Boost]

who do you think ford is using as the performance benchmark for the mustang? mustang vs m4 is going to be the most intense comparison ever

The specs for the M3/M4 weren't even out when ford developed the new mustang so I'm not sure what your point is here. If anything, they used the E9x as a benchmark which means that they are way behind at this point.